Reuel Sample: Welcome to the Wilmington Standard Podcast. I'm Reuel Sample. New Hanover County is one of the smallest counties in the state of North Carolina, but it is the one that is experiencing a tremendous amount of growth. Wilmington is a destination city for many across North Carolina, and here to talk about that and more is my very special guest, Mr. Richard Collier.

Richard Collier: Thank you. I appreciate that, and I'm not sure how I'm a special, but thank you very much.

Reuel Sample: Well, you are fresh off the, uh, the campaign trail. Yes, sir. City council and you are still relatively sane.

Richard Collier: I'm still sane.

Reuel Sample: That's right. What? Uh, tell us a little bit about what you were experiencing as you were going through all of that.

Richard Collier: You know, it's, um, you hear from talking to folks in the area or within the city at least. Um, there's a lot of angst about how the city is moving forward and how development is being handled or not handled. Roadway issues, traffic issues, those kinds of things. You hear a lot of that. You hear a lot about it. Are there too many? Are there too many apartments? Are there you know, are they good? Are they bad? What's affordable housing. What's not? There's just a lot of questions. Yeah, a lot of questions. Yeah.

Reuel Sample: What do you think you could have done differently?

Richard Collier: Um, you know, I think, um, I think my campaign was ran very well. I think your campaign was great. I think we put, uh, we got my, uh, we were able to get my name out, um, in a lot of places. Um, I'm not sure that the winds of a nonpartisan race were in our favor. Um, on on that Tuesday. Um, what am I disappointed with? I wanted 10,000 votes. That was my goal to myself. I did not get that. Um, so I that's my only disappointment. Beyond that, um, the three ladies that, uh, that will get their seats in December. I wish them all the best. I truly do. What do you think we got to know? All of us got to know each other very well. And I am completely in support of those three ladies.

Reuel Sample: I would watch you out there on the campaign trail, especially on election days and everything else, where there were times when you had all the candidates in one spot, and I would watch all of you get together and talk about things.

Richard Collier: Oh yes.

Reuel Sample: It was not really an acrimonious campaign, at least not out in the open. Maybe there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, but.

Richard Collier: I don't think so, I really don't. I think what you saw us doing in, in public was what we did all of the time. We always were very cordial to each other. I don't think any of us did any negative ads or negative, um, discussions about the other candidates. I think we were all very, very cordial in the way we handled it.

Reuel Sample: For the first time in several years. Wilmington does not have a single Republican on on council.

Richard Collier: Correct.

Reuel Sample: What things do you think we need to keep an eye on?

Richard Collier: Um. The things we need to keep an eye on. Uh, you know, if there begins to be discussions of rent control, if there begins to be discussions on, um, how we're going to how the government, the local government is going to be more involved in what is deemed affordable housing. Um, you know, those kinds of things. We that's not truly the local government's responsibility. We should be there to aid it, and we should be there to, to help with it. So my hope is that they will focus on things in the code that may could be modified to, to increase, um, what, what affordable housing characteristics there are. Um, I also hope that, uh, you know, that that they are going to look into a lot of the, the other issues that were heard during the campaign. It's the campaign was not only circled around affordability. Um, it was there were other issues that are out there, too, that are really important to folks, and I hope that the council picks some of those up, too.

Reuel Sample: Where do you think the biggest issue was for the Democrats? Do you think it was affordability, affordable housing?

Richard Collier: I do. Okay. I do. And that they got a lot more Democrats to come vote than the Republicans did.

Reuel Sample: There's that math.

Richard Collier: Thing. But I do believe that the affordability it is a big issue right now. I mean, it's a huge issue nationwide. It's not just here in Wilmington. Um, but I think that was, uh, that is what pushed everything over, you know, over the top.

Reuel Sample: What is the answer to affordable housing? And it's not just it's not just building cheap housing.

Richard Collier: No, it's not, because building cheap housing will put us into a situation that we are already rectifying today. Yeah. Um, so we need to affordable housing needs to be built in the same manner, um, that it's built everywhere. You know, the same the same quality. And we should be able to have multifamily developments that have income levels or housing levels spread out so that it's not, you know, even to me, the 10% numbers are odd because now you're you're almost you're not um, you can't define where the 10% can be and you can't change the, the housing units. So it just needs to be we need to work in how how the affordable how is it affordable for each person, you know. And and that's not the same for everybody. Yeah. Um, you know, we talk about an 80% of the average mean income or 60% or 30%. Um, the flip side to all that is the folks that live near any project that's coming, that they talk about that in that way, then they're they are have a fear of it being something that's going to create crime in their area or create, you know, some something, right.

Reuel Sample: Or something that will drive down their property values. Correct? Correct.

Richard Collier: So how do you solve affordable housing? You know, um, I think there were some, some really good things that were brought up during the campaign itself. You know, maybe the, um, the North Carolina having a housing fund in Wilmington that can help and, and it be set up particularly for, um, for affordability. Um, but we've got to decide what that is. Yeah. We use workforce housing as a word. We use affordable housing as a word, you know, then then it goes down into what is what is public housing. And everyone always goes to what is affordable.

Reuel Sample: Means three different things.

Richard Collier: Three completely different things. And because it's and everyone's trying to define them differently, but they're not heard differently. They're all all hearing the same thing.

Reuel Sample: The big question then becomes, if you look at a place like New York City now, Wilmington is not a New York City. Never will be. However, property values in New York City and housing and affordability in New York City is never going to go down. It just just isn't. Is Wilmington ever going to get to that point where there's just nothing we can do about housing prices, that it's just going to be expensive to live here or and with people coming in from outside counties or what are we thinking?

Richard Collier: Um, I think the city itself and New Hanover, but the city in particular, um, it's a small geographic area. Um, land prices are they probably won't go down. So if land prices and that's going to be the biggest basis in the cost of housing one way or the other. So if land prices stay either where they are or continue to rise as everyone wants things to do in their, you know, for their own personal portfolios, um, I'm not sure that it won't get to a situation of where you just it's not that you can't. I mean, we can always do something. Um, but it needs something like the Starway apartments that are on Carolina Beach Road. They are a mix, a true mix of incomes in an apartment community. Um, I think we need to determine how we're going to get some some single family, some single family housing in, whether it's townhouses or duplexes or if it's physical, single family, one house on a lot. We've got to be able to get some of that in. It can't all be apartments. And I think that's what everyone sees is there's a lot of apart too many apartments.

Reuel Sample: They say there's a developer out our way who started with single family houses. And they had bought this whole big area and they put up signs that said single family houses starting at $300,000. But it turns out that $300,000 got them a cement pad. Correct. Uh, if you really wanted to actually live in something, you had to be double that. Is that is that the direction things are going to continue to?

Richard Collier: That's the direction. I mean, right now when you start looking at what is a starter home, a starter home, if you can find it at 300,000 is really good. Mhm. You know and and it's hard for the single family builders. Uh, the folks building those homes to build it down at a, you know, a 180 or 150. I mean, it's just the cost of the materials are now that much higher. But again, the cost of the land is where the driving force is. I mean, folks aren't going to build if they build crappy less, uh, less. Not very good housing. Um, you know, are cutting corners or trying to do things less expensive. You're just not going to have a quality house, and then that's going to be equally as bad as someone needing to to be able to afford a $300,000 mortgage or more. Um, I did see where, you know, the government is now looking at discussing 50 year notes rather than 30 year notes. Yes. Uh, dropping some of the dropping the the interest on mortgages again, maybe getting it down to a 3% kind of a number which starts to, you know, starts to get more folks involved and gets more folks qualified for loans. Um, but it's still not going to change that number of $300,000. You're just now you're pushing it out 20 more years or, you know, yeah, you're paying less in interest, but, you know, it's the same situation.

Reuel Sample: Then to go along with all that is that the more people you put here is, you know, George Jetson was was literally born two years ago. If you follow if you.

Richard Collier: Follow the.

Reuel Sample: Jetsons, Jetsons. He was born two years ago. We are not flying around in cars. No. Which means that we have to have a surface level infrastructure. Correct? Unless you start building multi-layer highways in downtown Wilmington, what are you going to do? What? What needs to be? How are we going to handle that? Uh, now, now, prefacing all that is that we have to keep all this in perspective is sometimes it takes 18 minutes to do an 11 minute trip. So sometimes we we don't keep things in mind. But what are we going to do about all that.

Richard Collier: You know, everything is going to cost money, you know. Um, to, to resolve things that have been building over years. There's no one thing that we're going to do to fix, particularly the roads. Yeah. Um, you know, the things that we can do now are, are get in front of it. Can you, uh, as as developments start to come and play, can you have them make sure they're putting their roadway improvements in before they start building and building the homes or building the commercial or whatever the case is? Can we put that on the front end instead of letting it lag to the back end? Um, that will start to at least offset the traffic. That is, um, that would mitigate the traffic from their development. It doesn't solve everything, but it starts to, you know, you're starting somewhere. Um, that's going to need to be pushed. Um, no one's going to like it. It's going to cost money on the on the front end that no one wants to put out. But when whether everyone wants to believe it or not, when Mayfair was built, all of the roadway improvements were done at the first of it, and at the time Dot was also had plans in to be to be widening Military Cutoff Road and they were all working together.

Richard Collier: It was a construction disaster for folks, but the the roadway infrastructure was put in place ahead of Mayfair opening. Um, because it was at the time and may still be the largest, um, retail place in in our city, short of short of the mall itself. Um, so, so that was, you know, a start of that to, to get it in front of that Riverlights did the same thing when it was done. Um, but that's not the norm. It's normally the other way. Normally it's you get your you have the the approval from NCDOT and the Wilmington Metropolitan Planning Organization, um, to for the roadway improvements. But they are still built. They might be built at the end of the first phase. They might be built at, you know, you might have one piece in the phase one, and then if there's three phases, you may not get it all till till later. Okay. So we've got to we've got to accelerate that path.

Reuel Sample: So when a developer puts in a new division is that the developer has to the developer is responsible for all the roads and everything else in that division up to the point where it meets the actual roads. And then that has to be worked out with.

Richard Collier: The dot.

Reuel Sample: The dot. Then after that, they have to work out a plan on how to transfer all that over to the local government to for maintain, for maintenance. Correct. And now, as I've gotten to know you through this campaign, you're one of the people who helps design traffic patterns. You're the one. And you've shown me some some photographs and some things that ain't. That ain't easy to do.

Richard Collier: No it's not. I mean, it's not easy to do. No, it's. But it's what I do for a living. And it's what others like me do for a living. Yeah. Um. Which is why, you know, we tend to be involved in, in the city and the county governments or even in the in the dots is because that is what our background and expertise is. Um, you know, it's not always, um, there's not always a straight line to the answer. Yeah, it sounds like there should be. And and everybody can tell me when they ask me, give me their opinions, exactly how it should be done. Um, and, and a lot of times, the common sense way is usually the right way to go. Um, but it does take, um, there's a lot that goes into it. Um, and, and the one, the other part of the campaign you asked me earlier is just that there are folks that do not, uh, folks are not uneducated. I don't mean that, but to to understand, um, how what the entire what a development needs or what a new roadway. I mean, there's a there's a public meeting coming up for the extension of, uh, Independence Boulevard, which I fully support, going from, uh, Randall Parkway, where it technically ends now all the way to Martin Luther King, because we need that crosstown corridor. We need another way for folks to move. Um, but, you know, it all takes time, and it takes money. It won't. You can't say everybody supports it, and it's going to be done tomorrow, right? You know, it's it's a multi-year kind of thing.

Reuel Sample: What's the biggest what's the biggest time suck. Uh, is it is it the planning out of it all, or is it the construction? Uh, sometimes it seems. It seems like roads take forever to get done.

Richard Collier: Um, the planning of it is is a part of it. The the approvals are a huge part of it, whether you're doing it on behalf of the city. Uh, that Dot's approving or the city is approving. Um, if you're doing it directly for the Dot, it's still the approval processes are, are very extensive. Um, and then you go to construction, you know, and when you're doing it as a public entity, um, the bidding laws are different. So that takes longer. The contractual things take longer. I mean, everything. Just the red tape that gets in it. If we start to take away or cut down on some of the red tape, it will start to accelerate things. Construction is by far the longest portion, almost. In all cases, it's always the most.

Reuel Sample: The trades are having a hard time everywhere. Is that the same thing with road construction guys?

Richard Collier: Yeah, they're all um. The asphalt prices continue to rise. I mean, the cost of oil goes up, so the cost of asphalt goes up. Uh concrete's. In the same situation, uh, finding good craftsmen to do the work is is you.

Reuel Sample: Don't think about craftsmen with roads.

Richard Collier: But, you know, the guys that can form, uh, put the forms up to pour the concrete for a curb and gutter, for example. I mean, there are specific requirements for that, but I couldn't do it. Yeah, I can tell them what it's supposed to be, but I couldn't make it look like that.

Reuel Sample: That's tough work. If you're out there in on 100 degree, 100 degree day and you're working with asphalt, that will just burn your arm off, uh, that's tough work.

Richard Collier: Tough work, very tough work. And it's the same, you know, vice versa. Even if it's cold and you're doing it, it's still, you know, being out in the elements all day for the those guys work hard.

Reuel Sample: Then you gotta work even quicker because it's going to it's going to set up.

Richard Collier: It's going to set up quicker okay. That's right.

Reuel Sample: Wow.

Richard Collier: Yeah.

Reuel Sample: What is your funniest story from the campaign. Because you probably you probably ran into a whole bunch of situations that, uh, that, you know, there's probably some good things, some bad things.

Richard Collier: You know, funny stories to me at some of it were the folks that I knew personally and have known for a long time, um, the things that they would say to me of why they may or may not vote for me. And, you know, and I was really taken aback because a lot of them had to do with something in on the federal level that.

Reuel Sample: You had nothing to do with.

Richard Collier: They have nothing to do with, have have no has no bearing on what happens to us day to day for that particular issue. Um, those were the funny. It was the that was the maybe not funniest. It was probably the most. Eye opening thing that I saw in terms of funny. I mean, you know, we all just had a good time. We all had a good time doing the campaign. I've told you before, I enjoyed it. Yeah, I did like it.

Reuel Sample: You were great at it.

Richard Collier: Well, I've tried, I tried it took a while, you know, you got to get yourself going. Uh, because it is a different. It's a different thing. Yeah, it's a very different thing.

Reuel Sample: Carolina Journal came out last week with, uh, relatively bad report on Republicans chances next year. Now, just like every other poll, it's done in a snapshot. And it was done at the height of the shutdown and the height of elections. What do you think Republicans need to do to win at all races next year? We've got we've got several local races. We've got states. What do you think Republicans have to do to get over over all this?

Richard Collier: Uh, locally you've got to knock on everybody's door. You've got to go see everyone. Um, it doesn't matter who who it is or what their party affiliation is. Quite honestly, in my opinion, I think you need to go and meet everybody where they are and start to expand what, uh, what our normal, uh, thought processes are. And I think, I think the Republican Party did an excellent job in our race this year. They supported us completely. There was no I have no issues with that at all or how things were done. But the one thing that was always said to me was knocking on the doors is probably the best you can do, and I agree with that. I mean, you know, the light finally came in in my mind at some point, and I decided that was a really good thing, you know, to do. And, um, I think that's going to have to happen. I think we have, uh, we as, as Republicans, um, we need to make sure that we're truly focused on the issues that everyone's asking about. Mhm. Um, it may not be the ones we all want to talk about, but it's the ones that you need to talk about. And of course, the one lady that asked me what my position was on abortion. That was that was that may have been the oddest one I had because I'm thinking, really, I can't.

Reuel Sample: There's nothing.

Richard Collier: There's nothing you can do. You just smile and say, I'm sorry, you know? But I tell you that the campaign was it was fun. It was tiring, but it was fun.

Reuel Sample: What's next?

Richard Collier: What's next? I'll be leaving today to go to Charleston, to go get a little more work for my company. And, um, you know, it's it's continuing down that path. I mean, I want to continue, um, in the, uh, in the public service arena in some, some way. Um, I don't know what that'll be right now.

Reuel Sample: But right now, you, because of your engineering position, you are still serving the public. You're just not doing it as an elected official. But you're still engaged and everything that's going on.

Richard Collier: I am, and, you know, I'm still I'm still on the planning commission for the city, and we'll continue to be on that as long as they'll have me. Mm. Um, you know, I love doing it. I've done it for a long, long time. And, you know that again. That's another one of those places that you need background and expertise to be able to actually, um, make sure that the things that you're reviewing or the cases coming before you are qualified, you know, do they meet the code or do they not? Um, and not everyone can sit down and just all of a sudden do that.

Reuel Sample: You know, I find that interesting is we we heard it over and over again during the campaign. We don't want another realtor on there. We don't want. And you're not a realtor, but you're an engineer that that works with development.

Richard Collier: I do work for them, yes.

Reuel Sample: But good grief is that if you're going to talk about development, you really need somebody who knows what they're doing. Right? And that just that just we just failed to make that that connection.

Richard Collier: Yeah. That that connection I don't think will ever, ever be made as many, as many ways as I tried to discuss it over the last year. Um, I got a little bit of a pass because I am an engineer and I don't work work for a developer, you know, employed by, um. And I'm certainly not a realtor. Um, but there's just there's a perception in the, in our area and probably all over the country that developers are bad. Yeah. Um, and anybody that's in real estate is bad because they're only out to line their own pockets. Well, I'm not sure that the doctors aren't trying to make money on their profession or the or the attorneys or the school teachers that that is what you're doing it for is, you know, profit is not a four letter word. Yeah. Um, so we all want to be able to have our livelihood. And I think I agree with folks, there are good developers and bad developers. There are, there's no doubt about it. People build good things and they build bad things. What I tried to put forward in my campaign was I can recognize those things. I can help guide away from some of the the go for the good, good developments rather than the poor developments.

Reuel Sample: Did you see that news article about this developer who who basically clear cut a 100 acre place for a climate conference?

Richard Collier: No, I did not see that one. I did not see.

Reuel Sample: I would say that's a bad development.

Richard Collier: That's probably a bad, you know. But you're also looking at when you when things are discussed like that in a snapshot, it's hard to fathom. I mean, you look at a Walmart or let's don't even get a Walmart Amazon. Everybody in this town gets an Amazon package on the door. Well, there's a huge Amazon development going in town that's going to be, you know.

Reuel Sample: Are we getting an Amazon distributor?

Richard Collier: Yeah.

Reuel Sample: Really.

Richard Collier: And it's I mean out on 421. Um, it's a, it's a, it's a large, large, um, building that there is not a possibility that you save a tree under that building, and that building is, well, larger than several Walmarts. Yes. And but it's a needed. It's a needed thing. So how do you mitigate those things? What are what are the rules and regulations that that now Amazon as a company then has to do to help the community? What are the things they're going to be able to give back if they're taking some environmental uh, uh, trees in particular away? What are they going to do to help? That's the kind of stuff we've got to focus on rather than just saying, well, they took all the trees down. Okay. Well, you know, they'll also be mad the next day if they're if they're not getting their two day shipping out of Amazon.

Reuel Sample: Yeah. Exactly.

Richard Collier: Exactly. You know every everyone has a, has a, um everyone has an opinion. Everyone has a voice and I think they should use it. But in in certain circles, just like I don't go into my doctor's office and the first thing I do is tell them what, what he needs to do for me. You know, I'm. I'm there. I need his opinion. I need his professionalism. That's what I think the the folks on the council or on the on the county commission in the Senate, any of those, they need the professionalism that goes along with it to be able to make the hard decisions that other folks don't want to make.

Reuel Sample: I personally think we should have a Buc-ees someplace. I mean, if you, you know, talk about a developer that brings in a whole bunch of jobs and things like that, plus they've got really good food. Mhm. Uh.

Richard Collier: I would, I would be hard pressed to help support, support you on the Buc-ees. Um, just because I think that you're correct. They are a great they are a great company. They do bring in a lot of a lot of people. They sell a lot of things. Um, the crowd in there, that to me is a it's just too much. It's too much.

Reuel Sample: Outstanding.

Richard Collier: Uh, it's too much. But I do think Buc-ees and I've because our company works in multiple states and Texas is one of them. Where where it started. You know, I have done some research on them and they they are a very good company that gives back.

Reuel Sample: So I always do research on Buc-ees when I'm traveling.

Richard Collier: Yeah. Where they are.

Reuel Sample: Uh, well, I check out I check out their food court and all that stuff, so. Uh, what do you got plans for Thanksgiving and Christmas?

Richard Collier: Thanksgivings? Family. I mean, it's purely family. Um, Christmas will be the same way. Um, it will most likely stay local. And, you know, my wife and I and our kids will all have a have a nice, nice vacation.

Reuel Sample: You've got a great family, and you've got some shirts that you could probably stuff into.

Richard Collier: Uh, yes. Every one of them's going to get a shirt. Everybody's getting another shirt.

Reuel Sample: Outstanding. Richard Collier, thanks for joining us. It's been great getting to know you over these last couple of months and look forward to, uh, to whatever you're doing.

Richard Collier: So well, I appreciate that. And and, you know, hopefully everything continues, uh, you know, things, things happen the way they're supposed to. So we'll we'll continue moving forward.

Reuel Sample: This won't be the last time that we'll have have you on whenever we have an engineering problem, when they start putting the buckys in, we'll have you back up. And, uh, it's I'm looking forward to it all. So thanks for stopping by.

Richard Collier: Thank you. Appreciate you having me.

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